In Conversation with Filmmaker Ines Johnson-Spain
Abstract
- Abstract
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In October 2022, the Africa Mulitple Cluster of Excellence invited filmmaker Ines Johnson-Spain to show her film "Becoming Black" for a group of young students. The discussion that ensued was both interesting and enlightening with the students asking questions about the porcess of making a movie to societal questions about racism. Later that day, the filmmaker sat down with PhD student Marie Tsogo to discuss her movie and biography.
In her autobiographical documentary "Becoming Black" Ines Johnson-Spain takes the audience on the route of discovery of her roots and paternal family after having grown up in the German Democratic Republic.
Description
- Transcript
- foreign [Music] [Laughter] good evening and I'm very happy to do this interview with you uh I would like first of all to say thank you for this wonderful film we watch in the morning becoming black my first question is to know uh why did you choose to do this film um yes there are several answers possible but I start with the yeah for me nearest one this is that I actually wanted to I started to work on a new film and I thought to work on a film about my grandfather her fatherly grandfather um who lived in dahumi which is now Benin and who was a resistance fighter against the French colonial power was banned and in prison for many years and so on and I never met him he died long time before I was born and but people from the family told me a lot about him a lot of stories Legends whatever and I thought it could be an interesting way for me to appropriate my own um tulis Benin family site and yeah I started to work on it and I noticed that there's something lacking there's something missing and I felt strange in this relationship to my family in the way that I couldn't really Define my own position in it and that's why one after another different questions came up and so I had to confront this and I decided to postpone it in a way to say I first have to yeah take care of these questions which were really like who am I in general who am I as a black person who am I as a as a person as a member of this family and so on and um that's what I did with becoming black a very nice title becoming black and my second question is to know if we are born black or do we become black what what what why did you choose this philosophy philosophical title becoming black um I'll be born black I I hope we are not born black uh I hope I think um I mean for me on and also the way how I chose this film it is uh that I was aware of this um how do you say this in English it is um yeah how do you say um izoom [Music] um I start again with this sentence um but you can it's okay okay um so I I don't think that we are born black I think we are racialized from society and we have to we didn't have a choice to um then confront to confront it and to see what we are doing with this um effect of being racialized and for me this title means has a double layered meaning which is first to be addressed as somebody who is Black which is of course coming from the colonial times and then secondly to appropriate this um yeah this fact and to find our way in it to transform it in something which is our ours and which is something that can also strengthen us and encourage encouraging us I saw during the film that the film is shoot in two continents in in Germany and in Africa in Europe and in Africa which challenge is did you face to do this oh many many challenges first of all my inner challenge challenges were the the which were the most difficult difficult ones because um I started the film without knowing where I would go so I had to work through all these different layers in myself which were also related very much to trauma and so on and this was the biggest and also to confront people who I love from my family with this very unconvenient or very uncomfortable themes was also a very big step to do for me and [Music] um yeah and if you related to for example Germany then it is very much a question of funding it was of course difficult to find funding for a subject like this because they are very stupid uh answers you have to deal with like for example a TV channel where the editor was saying uh oh we had already a film about uh African students we don't need this or something like this or we just had a film about the princess from Ghana who was returning or stuff like this you know and which is yeah and so this was difficult and also each time to digest and um but in the end it turned out well um I had a we had a good support from from the city of and TV and climate Spanish appear and of course it needs a long time also to believe in this project and to to to to to again apply for funding and another institution and so on and not to be um disappointed or yeah and in other ways um of course it is difficult to bring up a subject like this which is related to race racism in a society which is on many levels still racist and so it also needs a lot of willpower and and yeah confidence to stick to it and where did you find this strength to do the film I think first of all not because because when I was starting the project I wasn't sure I would make a film I just thought I had to do it in the way I finally did it um for myself because there were so many hidden and and and and and uh yeah problems in hurting feelings had feelings and so on that I thought I really have to do it for myself to go to to go on living in a good way and in a healthy way and um I used this format of a documentary autobiographical documentary film to be able to solve all this um really difficult uh situations or difficult I don't know problematic um main structure that I'm in at the same time the main protagonist and the director used to be able to do this and um and I wasn't thinking about that I would go public with this film I thought of course if I do a film I have to do this but I don't I don't want to care about it I just it's too much for me to think while I'm still writing and trying to confront all these feelings and and to meet my family with all this difficult questions I just wasn't able to think about it so it came much later and how I found the strength I think why because I felt when I first started I felt how much how much it relieves me and how how good it is for me and and then uh step by step it was just in reality you know it just brought it to life and then it was there and then you have to take care so um it wasn't really a question of being strong and it was also that I was taking a long time to develop this film because I promised myself I will do this this work but I don't want to do it [Music] um when I'm very totally exhausted and sick after after all this so I promised myself to take care of myself and to take all the time I need and to um yeah to really take also longer times to digest and to also to have breaks and to let myself supported by Friends by I don't know being in good situations and so on and um yeah it's always you know now people are saying it's uh it took a lot of courage and so on I cannot really say this because I just did which was good for me and felt the right thing to do and um and I think I'm the one who is profiting the most of this film Okay so the the film raised raises many tables [Music] family family family Secret how did people in the film for example your father received this project um of course firemen was also very difficult because he had to confront with yeah with this how do you say this a dietary um and because my mom was already married with him when she met my my biological biological father and um so yeah it was also difficult for him but when he did it he did it in a way that he it was like giving me um and strong making a strong gesture of love I could say and um I can only assume that this was his motivation to do it and but I know it was very difficult and it is still difficult because he of course also feels judged by um I don't know Publications and so on yeah as a brother would like to receive the project he um he found it interesting that I do this and he was also astonished that my stepfather Armin would agree to it and but um I think he also thinks it's a good thing or was a good thing to do and now we will speak about Togo how was it for the first time when you went in Togo how did you feel when I went there yes your first experience in Togo first time yeah I mean I went there to meet my father or to to look for the family and as you can see in the in the in the film it was um very unclear what to expect there so I really had to prepare myself um and I maybe over prepared myself in a way that I thought everything is possible it's possible that my my father Lucian is dead or that he doesn't want me or the family doesn't want me and and so on so all this would be a possibility but uh fortunately it was like um yeah a very kitsy American movie that it was just very beautiful very welcoming very warm and without any conflict did you feel as at home finally no I wouldn't say this um I'm still with my whole path which I took um I'm just who I am you know a person who had made a certain certain experiences in different cultures and mainly in the gdr at this time and um and all this path and this search made it that I had to find my home somewhere else which is not a question of Geographics it's something I would say I find more and more inside inside myself and I'm also not looking at searching it in a certain place I feel very well when I'm in tomorrow when I'm Benin it's not the question but I also feel well in Berlin um it's more and and this is only only possible because I'm uh a lot of things healed inside myself okay okay in the film there is a ritual a ceremony what is it about I mean rituals in general are very common in this Society in in Togo and in Benin and it's also I mean my family there are a lot of people who studied in Europe and who are Christians and so on but there's no contradiction to still uh also practice this um old traditional rituals and having this connection to it and and and giving it a space in their lives and this um in general rituals where our regular regularly um uphold is it right I don't know and um so this specific one was to um to on a certain level to bring back or to connect the spirits of my ancestors of my father also with this place because it it's it's the family Temple which is in ague which is a little village between Togo and Benin on the Benin side or this place where this ritual is made is a family Temple where is which is actually the center of this whole practice of celebrating the connection to the ancestors and there are these pictures of people who passed away already from the family and there is one person my very beloved Auntie asiaba who is responsible for all he's just a priestess which is responsible for all this rituals and in this case my father Lucia passed away in Europe in in Germany in Cologne and we brought his body to Togo and um he as a person who passed away in Europe in Germany um they say that it needed to be made a certain ritual I don't want to go in details but to reconnect him and and one part of this is also to to to bring his image this photo photograph to this one house which is also part of the Temple how did you feel during this ceremony how did you feel I was just feeling on the right place uh I felt nice I mean I was surrounded by my other Auntie tanti pepper who's a very beautiful person lovely person and my other Auntie is doing it so how can you do a better ritual you know and also to do something I I father I knew my father would have wished her it's also nice and so it was just I think the right thing to do and I used this situation I knew I I one day I have to do this and I hadn't done it until this moment so I thought it's a good thing to bring this together with the film okay and to just do it okay the film reverse your other names like uh [Music] what is your relationship with these names um my father it's a funny story actually my father uh I think it's mentioned yeah it's mentioned also in the film because my father actually gave me the name akosuavi which is also in his birth certificate he he made for me and Togo and um in this name actually means actually born in the Johnson family on Sunday and but I'm not born on Sunday I'm born on Wednesday and so that's why I'm actually equally and my but his younger sister is my auntie aqua and she was a very strong character a bit stubborn and um but a very beautiful person also but he didn't want me to have the same problems she had and so that's why he just decided to call me a kosura We Like Sunday and [Music] um so I I on a certain moment I found out that I'm not a crosswori and I was checking this calendars and saw oh I'm born on Wednesday so I'm equally and I told him about this and he told me why and then I decided I still have to include this but it was not really I wasn't really thinking about it because I didn't know the meaning of it uh like if I could do this or not let's just change the name like this and I but I still had the feeling I have to include this other name too aquavin so um it became on another level part of my uh everyday um yeah practice or whatever you want to call it and um and now when I had this meeting with this cousin in the film who was explaining to me what it means to have a certain name and that you actually traditionally not are not really allowed to just change it and that it is more like in Western Behavior to do this as my father was living so for so long in the west I I also had to laugh because it's quite typical for my father and I liked it all this you know so do you feel yourself as The Reincarnation of your auntie oh my God this is a burden [Music] um I don't know I'm I mean I just accept how it is presented to me and I find this interesting interesting and it's worth to consider it but I don't want to be so strict in like now I'm the Inca reincarnation from 20 equal so I yes I I just accept the way how they explained it to me and maybe there's sometimes something happening in life where I think ah interesting so maybe it is like this or something like this you know it's more but play it more playful okay I really like the way you you narrate how you finally meet physically you are your father Yes Lucian so um how was it because you said you call him you said you are illness and say which illness you say Innes secret and say no which illness secret understanding glyphosis then the air so all the times that you bring us in the film to narrate this part of the encounter I was like okay and how was it when they finally made physically how was it you you would have liked to be in the corner now yes [Music] um I mean I was already in contact with him when I first went to Togo and then the I mean this was this totally strange thing that they taught me he's not in trouble he's in Germany and mulheim and this was like I don't know trickster or I don't know strange and and then I was contacted by my time Aunt Jacqueline who was also in the film and I was in living in her house being invited in her house and and then he called very regularly regularly like I don't know every second day and was asking me how are you have you eaten and have you seen uncle suvizo and auntie so-so and this cousin you have to meet and so on and so I somehow already developed on one level a little bit of like in relationship with you with him and I I thought he even though I still was very um uh I had a mistrust yeah um which was just so deep in inside myself also how I was raised in in East Germany I I I I I I thought and also to protect myself that I thought everything is possible so and I still couldn't believe that it's that easy that he would just accept me like this so I was very carefully listening to everything he would say on the phone but had a quite good feeling and when I then met him and it also took some time because when I then came back to Togo I needed some time to arrive and also to digest all this what was [Music] um happening in Togo and we were still continuing to to talk on the phone and then um one day he said so then when finally a series do we see each other and I thought yeah you're right slowly it's time and I come to YouTube and yeah that's what I did went there and it was actually very easy very beautiful uh the most easy you can imagine like he was standing in front of his house he had this traditional boo-boo on and I I yeah I I came there and and he was just opening his eyes and saying uh what did he say he was first watching really and then nothing special just taking me in his arms so that was beautiful thank you okay but about the feeling aesthetically you you choose not to do it chronologically why because [Music] um I never really believe in these simple answers you know like everything is like it appears to be I don't believe in this and my experience is that things are so much more complex um then we try to make it I mean it's it's also contradiction because on one hand it's also things are also very simple but the way how we try to develop narrations it's often too often too one-dimensional and that's why I'm not interested in this to repeat this so for me I want to emphasize this um yeah this parallelity this non-linearity of things and so on and this is something that's really strong in my heart and so it was a very early decision to not do it chronologically and my life didn't feel like it you know my my life is a proof that this is not true true because even though when I was in in a little child in East Germany and all and my parents told me my mother and my stepfather that they are my biological parent already I was another person in another on another continent without knowing so and I don't want to be reduced on something and so I thought it's just appropriate to to stick to it to not tell the things in the simple way which the first and the last and all this don't believe it I don't believe in it but uh and I also listened during the projection a note of Music especially when we are going in your past in the past can you tell us more about this music oh yeah and this is from a wonderful composer and musician was a friend of mine his name is Trump the Jean-Paul is in yeah and great musician a jazz musician but with a lot of influences from different cultures and of course also from the continent and he I mean he worked with many famous musicians like Mike Davis in other big names and he I knew he could really feel into this story not only because he was in in also in Benin but he has just he's living a strong connection in his music and also as a person to this through the continent okay at the end of the film you say to my fathers and to my mothers so did you speak about thank you for asking us it's very rare that people are really asking this um it's first of all also because we have two fathers and also to make sure also to my stepfather who who was very important for my bringing up um that he is my father no matter what is happening in all this story and um but on another hand it's also because I'm so aware that there were so many people in my life supporting me on so many different levels that I didn't went mad and that I somehow survived all this in a quite healthy way and and it was to honor or the all these people and it includes so many people like also for example I was in child care for the first three years and and I I know that there was one person who was especially taking care of me and it was for example also to honor this woman and there were people like um I don't know even even my Osteo part who accompanized me since 15 years is meant with this and it's also just to break up this limited notion of father and mother or parenting and so on because also this is for me something which is needed to be seen in a much broader way and and for me this includes all in the ancestry level like like also people who are not alive anymore and I still have a connection to and um and it's it's also I don't know for example my uh the the woman whom I was studying for a short time I was this guest student of an artist her name is Catalina's wedding and she her thinking influenced me a lot and all this is included in this mothers and fathers okay so after becoming black what's next that is the last question um what's next we'll see I'm working on new stuff I'm working on another documentary documentary film you could say even though I think it might be a little bit more open format but um yes I'm working on something and I'm very happy that very soon I have the chance to go to Los Angeles for three months to work on this for um in this program of villa Aurora and I'm very happy that I can leave at least for now the we have work on family themes behind me because um I need a break a long break from this and so this will not be an autobiographical film we are looking forward thank you so much thank you
Origins & context
- Title
- In Conversation with Filmmaker Ines Johnson-Spain
- Language
- English
- Date
- November 10, 2022
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